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Subject: liars From: Jason Taylor Date: Thu, August 13, 2009 11:53 am I relize writting this message as far as you go will be like talking to a brick wall because you are a know it all who has an answer to everything but if you post mine on your website like you have all the other replys at least I can reverse some of the brain washing you have posted. Yes brian washing is where you only post the point that you want to put across and find other unreliable internet sources to back up what you want to say. In a stats class in College I was taught that 85% of statistics are made up on the spot and the rest are just liars doing the figureing .The case in Georgia was not over the fox pens and has since been dropped because it was an ex- wife trying to get back at her husband after she was left by him and would recieve none of the income off the pen because there were other pen operators as well. The case in Alabama was dropped all the fines were pulled and Alabama has now became the easiest state to get a trapping lic. in. The stories you post on your page all have another side that either you are not smart enough to read all of it or you do and just post the points that will help your point. I have tried to help in many circumatsances and know for a fact that you have trespassed on to that land because you had the gate open and was trying to break up a bay that would of never happened if you would of not been feeding these aniamls over the fence. You attack us when you have a dog that has not been able to half walk since before christmas but that is ok not like that dog is not suffering everytime it walks. You always stat that these dogs are unattended, well I stay with my dogs and most people do. The tradition of American fox hunting has nothing to do with riding horses and wearing red coats. That is european fox hunting and in england was not considered a hunt unless the fox was caught which was usually turned out in front of the dogs. The breeds fox terrier and the dashunds were bred to go in the hole and kill the foxes if they went up. These are not parts of American fox hunting. The coyotes trapped for pens are caught in body snares or rubber jaw traps and yes are brought in from other states with vet check certificates. The foxes are caught in live traps which niether result in any bodily harm. The trapping business is a booming business but that is from all the fur jackets, hand bags, and boots you see these big shots wearing. Yes some of them are made from coyotes and foxes. The get aways stay open at all times and the game goes in these places and know it is a safe zone by being fed there however, when outside sources start feeding game in other places they believe that area is to a safe zone and is usually when they get caught. You ask about the get aways well a coyote can get threw anything he can put his head threw his body is much leaner and more flexable than a dogs and can easily fit places that dogs cannot get. Most of the size of a coyote is his long hair. Then I see an interesting point slavery. Slavery was wrong and was tolerated in the United states for a long period of time however comparing a human being to a wild animal just does not make any sense. There are no laws pertaining to coyote hunting in Florida I can shoot one when ever I want. What is the difference in feeding one , worming, and providing asafe place for one to live and one being gut shot just so they when he does die he won't be somebodies food plot. The other thing is sponges alot of people put out sponges soaked in fish grease to get the animal to eat it and then they can not pass it so they die a long suffering death. I am sure you think that is still better than the daily meal they recieve.
------ REPLY ------ Mr. Taylor, You are probably right about the "brick wall" comment as long as you understand the wall is two-sided. Obviously, there is no way you'll be able to convince us what is going on is a legitimate sport just like we'll never convince you to see our point of view. That, I believe, is something we can agree on. We've never stated that we know everything about the "sport", but all the research we have done and living next to an active pen, has enlightened us to what is truly going on. It's interesting that you bring up statistics because there is not a single document or reference to numerical data anywhere on our website. We are not throwing out artificial statistics like "73% of coyotes are killed during this sport", etc. I would recommend getting your money back for your statistics class as you obviously failed to learn the meaning of statistics. As with any site that wishes to promote a cause (for or against something), the purpose of our site is obviously going to be one-sided. That does not relate to "brain washing" as you say. No one is forced to view the site or agree with its content. I noticed on SpeedDogs.net that there was absolutely no reference to anything showing the inhumane treatment of the animals that is occurring. Using your logic, SpeedDogs.net is a brain washing site also. In reference to the Fox Atlanta report, it does not matter whether the case was dropped or not. The fact is, during one of the undercover reports at a hunting event, three of the penned animals lost their lives to the dogs. The fact that these animals paid with their lives for the sake of this "sport" had nothing to do with a pending case or with a disgruntled ex-wife. Just because a pending allegation is dropped does not equate to the illicit activity not occurring. In the "good ole boy" society we have in the South, the justice system is skewed beyond the point of recognition. As for the trespassing allegation, which incident are you referring to when the gate was opened and the family was trying to "break up a bay"? At no time has this family trespassed onto this property, especially during one of these attacks. The pictures that were taken and the video that was captured were always done so from the safety of their property. They have been diligent about following the letter of the law and haven't once crossed that line. For the facts: coyotes have never, I'll repeat that, never, been permitted to be run in this pen. Therefore, this pen has been operating illegally for quite some time now. So, if anyone has broken the law, it is the pen operators. You also mentioned trapped coyotes by saying, "... and yes are brought in from other states with vet check certificates." Aren't you aware that it is illegal to ship coyotes from out of state? Pens permitted to hold coyotes can only stock their pens with coyotes that have been trapped in the state of Florida. Period. We understand that hunting of coyotes is legal in Florida and don't really have issues with it. The coyotes do not belong in the Southeast, but thanks to a previous generation of hunters shipping them in from out West, they now exist here. Shooting a coyote is immediate; running it with hounds over and over for countless hours, day in and day out, is just torture. And just because we are against the cruel and inhumane way coyotes are hunted in these pens does not mean we are in favor of other atrocities that occur elsewhere. I hope that we clarified some of the issues you are having with our stance and maybe, one day, you'll have a change of heart and see the "sport" for what it really is. Help@EndTheHunt.org
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Bringing game in from out of state is not illegal check your facts and what is better someone gut shooting a coyote so it sufferes over time or the 3 kills you have seen with dogs running it with chance to get away and yes there are ways to get away. I see you dropped the European side of your story that is good and as far as statistics go I Probably have more of a degree than any one of that families that live around the pen.. I guess now opening the gate is not tresspassing and trying to get dogs to run out on the highway and get ran over is not illegal. SO i guess that is no different than someone letting your horses out and they run down the road and get killed. If you are going to do something think back to how you would feel if the same thing happened to you. I live in a modern home and always have dogs barking just as close as you and cannot hear them sounds like a crappy house but regardless of that I don't think it is right to keep 4 horses on an acre of land so doI need to raise hell about it, or what about your dog that has not been able to walk since about christmas without whinning i guess that is fine. The coyotes are wild and I guess they deserve more attention than people. The game laws in florida state that i can kill a coyote by what ever means i want 24/7,365 a year so why can I not run them. If yall bought that land from the orginal owner than the pen has been there much longer than yall and running has taken place for years why raise hell now and yes raise hell. This is a sad day that some leberial animal rights activist lives in the country go back to the city you came from.
------ REPLY ------ Mr. Taylor, Evidently, you must have misread the rules as they pertain to the importation of coyotes into the state. If you would like, I could put you in touch with FWC directly. Maybe they could come out and explain the process to you. Here is an excerpt directly from their permit letter that is provided to anyone seeking a fox penning permit: "With an appropriate permit issued by the Executive Director, foxes may be imported for the purposes of stocking private fox areas, but the trapping of foxes for any purpose in Florida is prohibited. The importation of coyotes is prohibited. With an appropriate permit issued by the Executive Director, coyotes may be trapped in Florida and relocated to private fox areas." The main issue with fox penning is that it is completely unregulated. Although FWC has policies and permit guidelines in place, they do not have the resources to adequately manage this practice. The inspection of a pen, at most, takes place once a year. That means the pen operators can manage their pen any way they see fit without repercussion. In addition, I have to pay $15 to shore fish from a public beach, even more money to fish in freshwater and tack on a few more bucks for a saltwater license. If I wanted to go hunting, even on private land, I would have to have a hunting license. But, for some reason, fox pens do not require any cost for the permit holder. On top of that, the hunters using the pens do not have to be licensed. And before you go off saying this is not true, speak to Capt Leroy Alderson (FWC) and he'll confirm exactly that. As for the money you pay to "hunt" in this pen, do you think the pen operator is reporting this as income on his taxes? Probably not. Therefore, my hard earned, taxpaying dollars are being used to subsidize a fox penning practice that I am in total disagreement with. The fox pens are regulated by the state and therefore cost the taxpayers money every time they have to inspect the pens, review the vaccination records and monitor the importation of the foxes. So technically, I have a vested interest in what is going on in a pen. The gate has never been unlocked and opened by this family. This cause is for the animals. We know it is not the hunting dogs fault that the humans participate in this "sport" and therefore, we certainly do not wish them any harm. If they wanted the animals to get out of the pen, they could have simply cut the fence, dug holes or numerous other ways that would have concealed their intention. That is not what they are about. They are law abiding citizens and have gone about this civilly and within the confines of the law. The dog you keep referencing is actually a rescue herself. She is a cherished member of the family and is treated as such. When her leg was injured on the property, she was immediately taken to the vet for treatment. It is an issue with her physical characteristics and may never heal properly. Therefore, she receives scheduled medicine and has routine vet visits. Although this has been interesting, this will be the last email you will receive from me. I am not running and hiding, as I have nothing to fear. I just refuse to stoop to the level that you are beginning to bring this conversation down to. If you would reference your original email, my response and this email, you'll see that you have resulted to name calling and comments that you are better than the neighbors around the property. I have tried to "stay the course" and focus on the facts in a meaningful rebuttal, but you clearly cannot stay focused on the topics at hand. PS - For someone who "have more of a degree than any one of that families that live around the pen", you may want to invest in a spell checker.
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